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TOPIC: DAF 825 fuel contamination injector rack strip and clean

DAF 825 fuel contamination injector rack strip and clea 29 Oct 2020 20:46 #119345

  • Balliol Fowden
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Michael Miles wrote:
“Nowadays fuel does seem to be more prone to contamination particularly if the specification is for vehicles where the fuel is usually only suitable for short-term storage. Boats can have fuel which may be several years old.



Yes, things have changed. Most normal folk can no longer ship on board tons (old measure) of red oil and burn it with gay(?) abandon, full welly, big bow wave! Now we have to pay far more for white, sometimes physically carry it, and accept the biodiesel content, which means that, in combination with the bug, that you don’t want fuel in your tanks for longer than a few months, say six at a push.

A few years ago I was worrying about my 3000 litre fuel tanks, which I somewhat foolishly built from only 3mm plate 35 years ago. A short sighted choice of plate thickness perhaps! Now there is nothing to say that they are failing, just me worrying, but the concept of possibly having to renew these tanks, lying as they do under our saloon, was worrying me. But “simples,” it now occurs just cut the tank tops out and put much smaller tanks inside the existing ones. Less diesel stored, less risk of condensation (debatable I know) and probably affordable to fill. It may never happen, but just in case it does I have solved that one!

The point really is that, as a design point for those commissioning a new build, big diesel tanks are bad news these days, except that, by eventually cutting out the tops, they might accommodate smaller tanks, or alternatively become battery boxes! That is if you can get to them.

Balliol.

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DAF 825 fuel contamination injector rack strip and clean 29 Oct 2020 16:35 #119337

  • Michael Miles
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I polish my diesel every year by taking out the measuring float at the top of the tank and inserting a pipe connected to my DIY pump/ filter unit which I have attached to a board and run from my batteries. In addition, I prefer ship practice which is to run with a day tank which I fill using a separate pump and passing the diesel through filters as it goes into the day tank. The day running tank has a sump at its base so that in the unlikely event that there is some contamination I can take samples to check, as you should do with the main tanks every time you refuel.
Removing the inspection cover after 5 years and checking within the tank is also good practice if you do have an inspection plate.
Nowadays fuel does seem to be more prone to contamination particularly if the specification is for vehicles where the fuel is usually only suitable for short-term storage. Boats can have fuel which may be several years old.

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DAF 825 fuel contamination injector rack strip and clean 23 Oct 2020 12:20 #119210

  • Colin Stone
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My integral tanks have quite a cunning syphon drain from the lowest forward corner. Th vertical pipe is the main fuel suction to the engine. The shorter pipe entering from the left and angled into the corner is the water drain. As long as the fuel level is above the top of the drain pipe, anything at the bottom is syphoned out. If lower, plastic tube and suck!!

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Colin Stone
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DBA - De Binnenvaartvereniging
DBA - L’Association des Péniches de Plaisance

DAF 825 fuel contamination injector rack strip and clean 22 Oct 2020 17:58 #119198

  • Tam Murrell
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Matthew Arnold wrote: The tank also has an integrated water/ crud Catcher. Sort of like a filter canister welded to bottom of the tanks below the fuel take off point. Idea is that is a crude water debris trap.


I don't know why something like that is not fitted as standard. When we designed the conversion of Friesland out of trade I had tanks like that made, and regularly took samples for viewing from that 'sump'. You really don't want to be on a major waterway (or even worse, at sea) and have your engine fail because of something so easy to check.

Tam

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DAF 825 fuel contamination injector rack strip and clean 22 Oct 2020 17:27 #119197

  • Matthew Arnold
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Fortunately the tanks have inspection plates. Perfect size for grandkids to get in and earn their keep! The tank also has an integrated water/ crud Catcher. Sort of like a filter canister welded to bottom of the tanks below the fuel take off point. Idea is that is a crude water debris trap. I suspect when I pull the bung out of it that will give a good indication of what is in store
Pre filters I think will be another addition.
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DAF 825 fuel contamination injector rack strip and clean 22 Oct 2020 13:02 #119193

  • Colin Stone
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Clean tanks:

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Colin Stone
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DBA - De Binnenvaartvereniging
DBA - L’Association des Péniches de Plaisance

DAF 825 fuel contamination injector rack strip and clean 22 Oct 2020 12:50 #119192

  • Balliol Fowden
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Richard Cooper wrote: In my experience the best, if not only, effective cure for contaminated fuel is to actually get into the tank,


Just to throw in an alternative idea that will only apply to some more modern craft........

We had a serious problem with some of our hire boats in the early eighties after a multi-boat booking had topped up elsewhere at a contaminated supply. The tanks were integral either side of the engine beds. We slipped the boats and cut two holes (with a hole saw) through the hull shell into each tank, then pressure washed them out straight into drums on the slipway, heaters underneath to dry them, then welded the cut out discs back in.

Not applicable to all boats of course, and needs a docking or slipping, but just a thought to store away for those with integral tanks. The job is much easier that way!

Balliol.
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DAF 825 fuel contamination injector rack strip and clean 22 Oct 2020 10:02 #119179

  • Richard Cooper
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In my experience the best, if not only, effective cure for contaminated fuel is to actually get into the tank, drain it (those blue barrels from DIY outlets are not too expensive) and scrub it out with rags or nappies (But be careful as some nappies contain gel which causes yet more problems if you scrub through the fabric) This needs an inspection plate in the tank. I discovered all this the hard way a few years ago, took the best part of a grim week to fix it. If I had another boat I would get an inspection plate in the tank if at all possible.

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DAF 825 fuel contamination injector rack strip and clean 21 Oct 2020 15:48 #119159

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Glad PBO was useful. Happens sometimes!

Two points occur that I neglected to mention earlier.

1. Whilst messing about with fuel lines it might be a good idea to install duplex pre-filters. From what you say it sounds as if you have no pre-filter. There is stuff on the forum about this. Someone more versed in searching this forum might provide the links.

2. If you clean the tank and pipes and then want to shock treat the engine it might be worth running the engine (and returning the fuel) to a temporary jerrycan initially. It will be easier and cheaper to mix a strong shock dose in a jerrycan, and more importantly might avoid debris being returned to your tank.

Balliol.

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DAF 825 fuel contamination injector rack strip and clean 21 Oct 2020 08:22 #119146

  • Matthew Arnold
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thank you all. The PBO article Balioi provided was very helpful. We will progress with tank cleaning etc over the next month and will come back with what we found. We have been using Kethon additive but I suspect in the wrong dosage
Still need a DAF 825 engine manual if someone has a source
matt

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DAF 825 fuel contamination injector rack strip and clean 21 Oct 2020 01:23 #119144

  • Peter Smith
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For the past 10 years we have only used our vessel in summer and put it into hibernation for winter. Almost exclusively we buy our diesel from a wholesaler delivering by truck.
Knowing the fuel will be stored for an extended period we always add biocides at the time of filling.
The supplier says this is not necessary as the fuel is 'fresh', direct from the manufacturer. As such it is extra clean and water free. Apparently some roadside underground tanks and bunker ship tanks are not so clean.
I am not sure if I really need the biocides however to date no issues and it is far easier to pour in a bit from a bottle than clean tanks, pipes and filters.

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DAF 825 fuel contamination injector rack strip and clean 20 Oct 2020 09:12 #119125

  • Colin Stone
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Diesel bug not good. I use a good dose of Soltron in my tanks which are rather on the large size - 1800 ltrs white and red. So fuel is quite elderly and tanks nowhere near full. Can't recall last time I took fuel. Have used Soltron since 2005 and have no issues or water.
Soltron has been proven to clear up completely black and buggy diesel. I watch a few 25ltr plastic bidons with foul diesel being treated. When I went back a month later to check progress, the owner had used it as it was back to clear!!
The water build up from condensation is a complete myth - or is that a moth. There is a good scientific article of why. Water gets in from the fuel supply when filling or filler cap leaks.
www.yachtsurvey.com/myth_of_condensation_in_fuel_tanks.htm
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DAF 825 fuel contamination injector rack strip and clean 20 Oct 2020 08:57 #119124

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A quick google provides this article from PBO which at a quick scan seems to explain the situation and assess the many alternative biocides available. There will be plenty of other info around and as many opinions as there are biocides on the market. As with so many potions in a bottle it is difficult to know what to use and indeed to assess whether it actually works, but this may give you some guidance.

www.pbo.co.uk/gear/12-diesel-bug-treatments-tested-43353

If the bug has progressed beyond murky fuel to the full blown dreaded black jelly then you need to clean the system out physically first. A shock treatment of biocide is unlikely to clear all the gunge. In a worst case you may find yourself literally ladling out bucketfuls of gunge from the tanks. Fuel lines are sometimes easier to replace than clean. When you get to the stage of a reasonably clean fuel tank, fuel lines and filters then a shock treatment may then clear the precision components such as the injector pump. Try a shock dose and run the engine. If not then the pump and injectors will need to be overhauled by an expert, but that is expensive.

There have been various threads on this forum before on the subject, also all the arguments about full tanks v. empty and condensation. My own take now is that big tanks are a bad idea since you don’t want to keep the fuel too long, run down the contents before a lay up and block up all tank vents when laid up to keep damp air out. Don’t buy diesel fuel from an above ground tank in a warm country.

If you post photos of your installations it may be that I or others can offer further help.

Balliol.

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DAF 825 fuel contamination injector rack strip and clean 20 Oct 2020 08:14 #119123

  • Matthew Arnold
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Ballioi
Thanks. Yes I am pretty sure it’s bacterial. And yes agree need to start from the source. This involves draining tanks (anyone want 150 litres of dodgy diesel?) Cleaning them out and working forward
I am in Le Somail southern France. Any suggestions on detergents to use and future mitigation’s.
We only summer on the barge so we will always have diesel in the tank at least 6 months old. One suggestion is full tanks to minimise a oxygen water condensation contact area. Problem with that if it doesn’t work I have not 150 litres of contaminated fuel but 1000 litres
Matt

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DAF 825 fuel contamination injector rack strip and clean 19 Oct 2020 23:04 #119121

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Sounds to me as if you have a bad case of the diesel bug, which is a bacterial contamination in the fuel that creates a black gungy mess in everything. Have you checked the tank contents. Is the fuel clean or murky? Check filters. If you have the bug then you need to start at the beginning, the tank, and run through from there. More suggestions available if you do have the bug.

Balliol.

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DAF 825 fuel contamination injector rack strip and clean 19 Oct 2020 21:27 #119120

  • Matthew Arnold
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Hello all
Mathilde has been a 10 year restoration project. We installed a good second hand DAF 825 several years ago along with bespoke fuel tanks and ancillaries. For the past 4 years the engine has done only very short trips. Major restoration of the barge was finally finished this year. We embarked on our first proper voyage 2 weeks ago. Fuel tanks had 2-3 year old diesel in them. Within a day engine throttle response was poor to non existent. Initial problem identified was a blocked priming pump metal mesh filter (first entry point from fuel tank to engine) that was covered in a treacle like gum. Cleaned that. Ok for a day then same problem of no throttle response. Filter was clear but now found after removing the inspection plate that the injector rack was sticky. the racks that control fuel flow to the injectors would not freely move. So now each day I need to disconnect the fuel lines and run a detergent diesel to free things up then its good for the day. Next day same problem and solution.. Bottom line I need to flush fuel system ( know how to do this) but also strip and clean the injector rack. I am after a DAF 825 manual to show how to do this. The manual on the Knowledge Base doesn't cover this section. Can anyone help? Many thanks
Matt

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