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TOPIC: Who has purchased Nottingham Boat CO’s designs?

Who has purchased Nottingham Boat CO’s designs? 15 Sep 2020 19:23 #118507

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Colin Stone
Barge Register KEI
www.luxe-motor-kei.co.uk
DBA - The Barge Association
DBA - De Binnenvaartvereniging
DBA - L’Association des Péniches de Plaisance

Who has purchased Nottingham Boat CO’s designs? 07 Sep 2020 21:34 #118391

Hi Derek
I've just sent a Private Message to you.

Paul Hayes

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Who has purchased Nottingham Boat CO’s designs? 05 Sep 2020 07:25 #118335

>Princess Matilda is not a typical WB hull, as Ajax and Jupiter, but a Cat B hull designed to be on the rougher stuff. And if I recall correctly has a V bottom rather than flat.

I should have added that I reckon the Peter Nicholl's FCN seagoing barge would be a very good choice for the described areas.
www.steelboats.com/widebeam_barges/FCN_barge.htm

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Colin Stone
Barge Register KEI
www.luxe-motor-kei.co.uk
DBA - The Barge Association
DBA - De Binnenvaartvereniging
DBA - L’Association des Péniches de Plaisance

Who has purchased Nottingham Boat CO’s designs? 04 Sep 2020 23:35 #118331

Hi Derek,

Welcome to the forum and thought would chime in... As Balliol points out Tristar Boats (who fitted out and had the design of our barge created, whilst Soar Valley Steel Boats actually welded it together) were in the workshop next to Nottingham Boat company before NBC went bust, and have now moved into one of their old buildings at Redhill Marina.
As above, our Hull was built by Soar Valley Steel Boats who I believe did some of the hull building/construction for NBC.

When I dropped past on Wednesday last, If you are after one of those hulls particularly, I believe there is a company still selling the last of the shells from the liquidation of NBC from Redhill Marina, I can't remember the company name but when I was there there are 3-4 hulls, with sign boards on them, still on the hard for sale. So if you visit: redhill-marine.co.uk there are contact details of the businesses there including SVSB and Tristar, so might be worth a call if it is the shell you particularly want, it is a little community down there so any of the businesses could point you in the right direction for a hull.

Best of luck

Justyn
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Who has purchased Nottingham Boat CO’s designs? 04 Sep 2020 23:22 #118330

Hang on Paul.
The topic is NBC who make/made narrowboats and widebeams. The Atlas and Jupiter, specifically mentioned, are widebeam versions of narrowboats and apart from great interior space, suffer the same limitations as a narrowboat - low freeboard and poor hydrodynamics etc etc. Seen several UK widebeams over the years on wide canals and rivers and the wash at 4-5kts is horrendous. Hate to think of the fuel consumption. Granted thick plate is used - often on the bottom - to add ballast easily.
Having sailed in Chesapeake Bay, in dinghies to warships, I wouldn't want to be there long term with a narrowboat or widebeam hull form. A quick crossing on calm day fine.
And my comments refer to that hull design. Which I stand by.
You mention Bluewater, Piper and Delta. In my view their WB have the same limitations, unless heavily modified from the norm. But the luxe hulls are a completely different kettle of fish and based on a hull form - luxemotor - with much finer lines. The hull form developed to be able to use the early low power engines, so had to be slippery. But accom is a compromise and the center hull section is still flat.
In early 2000s, I watched/looked at quite a few UK new build luxe style replicas being built and I've looked inside bare NB and WB hulls. Several had hull frames at 2m spacing on 6mm plate - no where near Dave Gerr's calcs. Also employed a naval architect for my own design and watched in the yard of the correction of a pretty but shoddy design - fwd collision bulkhead with no vertical framing. Won't name the hull. And I've modelled the hydrodynamics of a 1920s hull and a UK and NL luxe replicas.
I too watched TS. Princess Matilda is not a typical WB hull, as Ajax and Jupiter, but a Cat B hull designed to be on the rougher stuff. And if I recall correctly has a V bottom rather than flat.
The topic again is about a WB to routinely operate on large sea bays - least that is how I read the geographic description provided by Derrek.
If I'm wrong and it is just flat calm waters, then great and a WB will do just fine.
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Colin Stone
Barge Register KEI
www.luxe-motor-kei.co.uk
DBA - The Barge Association
DBA - De Binnenvaartvereniging
DBA - L’Association des Péniches de Plaisance

Who has purchased Nottingham Boat CO’s designs? 04 Sep 2020 20:48 #118323

Colin Stone wrote: Welcome to the Forum.

Do you have any particular desire for a NBC vessel??
The designs seem to be pretty generic narrowboat (NB) or widebeam (WB).
I'm sure that you could find all the hull design details and interior layouts on the www and asking on Canalworldnet would elicit much info. Also look for books by Graham Booth - The Narrowboat Builder's Book and Inland Boat Owners Book are very good. Out of print but World of Books list them.
I'm sure any USA steel fabricator could make one fairly easily. The vessel is a pretty simple box.
But without wishing to dampen your enthusiasm, I wonder if that hull form will be suitable for the posted waters???
These UK vessels were designed to operate on flat calm waters devoid of any waves, swell or currents. They have light hull and scantling construction and low freeboard. They potter along at a few knots but have the hydrodynamic qualities of a house building brick.
The hulls can be modified to be more watertight and indeed have operated in rougher waters. The Channel has been crossed when heavily modified - but only on days suitable for cross Channel swimmers. Most cross by lorry.
You mention barge in your post and I think you would find something more suitable with a European hull design more suited to rougher waters found on larger canals, rivers and lakes. But again, quite entertaining with waves and swell.
Fire away with any other Qs and good luck with your quest.


I'm sorry Colin, far too many generalities in your reply, although some of them do indeed represent some UK new builds but not all by far.

The scantlings on my hull far exceed those given in Eliments of Boat Strength, Dave Gerr, for vessels operating in open water, and are close to the Norwegian Board of Trade "Light Ice Conditions" and has a high metacentric height, both calculated and tested, great for stability.

Having looked at hulls built by people like Bluewater, Piper and Delta I would think that they too would absolutely outperform the requirements for RCD estury use, whether or not the stated category is higher than "D". Although there may be individual salient points that may be questionable such as window spacing etc.

On the whole modern UK built hulls commonly have plate thickness of 8 - 10 - 12 mm with 5 - 6 for the upper works, making a very strong welded Monique box, supported (almost unnecessarily) by large section ribs and lateral members, when I read of hulls with 4mm measured bottom thickness being ok for insurance purposes, I smile as this means I've got 6mm of wear to go before even considering overplating, which is done with 6mm steel.

Boxy, flat bottom with hard chines and vertical sides (as are most ferries, and merchant ships), yes for a reason, I wanted to use (as do most UK New Builds) standard kitchen, bathroom, lounge furniture for comfort, although adapted and fastened down for crossing the English Channel, Mersey estury etc. (Also see, Timothy Spall - Round Britain by Barge -YouTube).

As far as seawork goes insurance companies only cover up to force 4. Also RCD compliance can be proven by operation in the given conditions for a particular category, my inflatable dingy has a higher theoretical rating than my barge, but I know which one I was glad to be in when the Etang de Thau blew up, shallow water, choppy
nasty waves.

Are they "Dutch Barges"? No. neither are Peniches, or Spitz, again, boxy flat bottomed, not particularly hydrodynamically efficient, but trade all over Europe and happily cross The Channel.

As we know speed / power / engine size are mainly dependant on hull length at waterline, there's a tendancy at the moment to install larger engines than is really practical, most 20m barges get up to 10kpm using 80 - 90h.p, then to get an extra 3 or 4 km require another 60 - 70 h.p, more than doubling, nearly trippling fuel consumption, just making a big hole full of froth in the water. I know two 20m new builds with larger engines than is in a 38m Peniche that a friend traded all over Europe.

Very "fine" hulls will return better results, but with a reduction of usable inside space, so coming up the Rhone at half revs at 6kph may be considered "pottering", others might say "leasurly conserving fuel".

Low freeboard, loaded commercial barges, both modern and old (including sail) trade(d) with side decks awash in places such as the Thames Estuary or the Rhone when a Mistral blows, again I relate to the difference between the freeboard of my inflatable and my barge, it's the watertight design above the deck level that counts.

Paul Hayes
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Who has purchased Nottingham Boat CO’s designs? 04 Sep 2020 12:18 #118312

Welcome to the Forum.

Do you have any particular desire for a NBC vessel??
The designs seem to be pretty generic narrowboat (NB) or widebeam (WB).
I'm sure that you could find all the hull design details and interior layouts on the www and asking on Canalworldnet would elicit much info. Also look for books by Graham Booth - The Narrowboat Builder's Book and Inland Boat Owners Book are very good. Out of print but World of Books list them.
I'm sure any USA steel fabricator could make one fairly easily. The vessel is a pretty simple box.
But without wishing to dampen your enthusiasm, I wonder if that hull form will be suitable for the posted waters???
These UK vessels were designed to operate on flat calm waters devoid of any waves, swell or currents. They have light hull and scantling construction and low freeboard. They potter along at a few knots but have the hydrodynamic qualities of a house building brick.
The hulls can be modified to be more watertight and indeed have operated in rougher waters. The Channel has been crossed when heavily modified - but only on days suitable for cross Channel swimmers. Most cross by lorry.
You mention barge in your post and I think you would find something more suitable with a European hull design more suited to rougher waters found on larger canals, rivers and lakes. But again, quite entertaining with waves and swell.
Fire away with any other Qs and good luck with your quest.
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Colin Stone
Barge Register KEI
www.luxe-motor-kei.co.uk
DBA - The Barge Association
DBA - De Binnenvaartvereniging
DBA - L’Association des Péniches de Plaisance

Who has purchased Nottingham Boat CO’s designs? 04 Sep 2020 10:33 #118306

Both Xrandd and R&D have a good reputation among British canal boaters, and Colecraft produce hulls very similar to those you mention as well. As you are looking at English widebeam canal craft you might try asking on Canalworld forum too.

Tam
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Who has purchased Nottingham Boat CO’s designs? 04 Sep 2020 10:19 #118304

  • Balliol Fowden
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You could try asking Tristar Boats, who operate from the same yard, possible the same premises, and may have common staff.

Some UK builders of these types of boats do not actually have working drawings for their hulls. Empirical practices and eyes tend to prevail, which is not a criticism.

I would think that the stern design would need quite substantial changes in order to best accommodate twin screws. Be aware also that as a generalisation many of these types of new-build barges do not have the best hydrodynamic designs for use in open waters. They are designed to optimise space as houseboats rather than to swim nicely through the water. They get along OK on canals (or when moored as houseboats!) but the water flow deficiencies manifest when asked to perform on more open waters. Many give good service, but be aware that a very large proportion of the "wide beams" built in the UK never see serious cruising use so do not get tested as such.

Balliol.

You could also look at Branson Designs
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Who has purchased Nottingham Boat CO’s designs? 04 Sep 2020 09:32 #118303

Hello Derrek

Welcome to the forum, it's always good to hear a new question 🙂.

I'm afraid that I don't have a direct answer for you.

My understanding was that NBC fitted out steel shells produced by others.

One such company that specialises in bespoke shell builds, rather than "stock" designs, is XRandD.

It's run by three long term workers of the long standing boat building firm R&D Boatbuilding, which they took over around 15 years ago. So are not a start up company, and have loads of experience.

I'm sure that if you contacted them with your requirements to they would be willing to listen and help if they can.

I have to declare an interest, in as much as Gary, one of the company owners built my shell when it was R&D.

When contacting Gary please mention my name. I haven't spoken to him in years, but I'm sure it will be an introduction.

Contact details.

www.xrandd.co.uk/

Paul Hayes
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Who has purchased Nottingham Boat CO’s designs? 04 Sep 2020 06:16 #118302

  • Derrek Enderley
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Hello All,

This would be my first post but I have been a member for a year or so. I am from the states and have searched the internet, searched the forums here and have not found the answer to my question. I am trying to find who purchased Nottingham Boat Companies plans for the Atlas and Jupiter. I spoke to the company that liquidated Nottingham and they were not very helpful, so I figured someone here may know. I would be interested in either speaking to the company that purchased them about possibly having a vessel built and shipped to the US or acquiring a copy of the plans and having a yard build one here, while modifying the plans for twin screw.

A little about me, I am a merchant seaman from Philadelphia currently working on a 198M tanker, but I have captained vessels to 54m. I fell in love with barges while in Europe and pretty rapidly became obsessed. I am looking at a new build for the option of building it in a twin screw configuration. Geographically we have the Delaware River, Delaware and Chesapeake Bays and the bays of the Jersey Shore to enjoy and one of these vessels would be ideal for draft and narrow beam.

I appreciate any and all help in locating who may be producing these vessels or who may have the plans, I have faith someone here knows what happened to them.

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