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BARGES: All about barges and barging - building, buying, maintaining, equipment, handling on the water, etc.
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TOPIC: Testing of RCBOs/RCDs (not directives...)

Testing of RCBOs/RCDs (not directives...) 25 Feb 2020 09:14 #113989

Balliol Fowden wrote: These are better if you need to get a couple of wires into one terminal, e,g ring main.

www.bootlaceferrules.co.uk/end-sleeves-uninsulated-c79183.html

Balliol.


or buy these as they remain insulated and take multiple cables as well.

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Insulated-Twin-Cord-End-Terminals-Double-Entry-Bootlace-Ferrules-Crimp-Car-Van/201628713095?hash=item2ef2020087:m:mrpG8j5YuYJrif2B18UniCw
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Testing of RCBOs/RCDs (not directives...) 25 Feb 2020 09:13 #113988

Chris Rowling wrote: Hi Sam

I notice there are no ring or "female" terminals in the supplied terminals only pin type connectors.
Does that mean the self adjusting handle cannot get over the ring once crimped?

Regards
Chris


Chris those crimpers are only for bootlace ferrules, you would need a different crimping tool for the other type of ferrules

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Testing of RCBOs/RCDs (not directives...) 25 Feb 2020 08:37 #113986

  • Balliol Fowden
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These are better if you need to get a couple of wires into one terminal, e,g ring main.

www.bootlaceferrules.co.uk/end-sleeves-uninsulated-c79183.html

Balliol.

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Testing of RCBOs/RCDs (not directives...) 25 Feb 2020 01:10 #113985

  • Chris Rowling
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Hi Sam

I notice there are no ring or "female" terminals in the supplied terminals only pin type connectors.
Does that mean the self adjusting handle cannot get over the ring once crimped?

Regards
Chris

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Testing of RCBOs/RCDs (not directives...) 24 Feb 2020 19:37 #113984

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Testing of RCBOs/RCDs (not directives...) 24 Feb 2020 19:36 #113983

Chris Hanley wrote: Further to previous replies may I add the following.
I would recommend using multi-strand flex for all boat/barge wiring. Solid core cable which is subject to vibration can work harden and become brittle. This can lead to a fracture in the copper that will still conduct electricity, but will create a point of electrical resistance. This can get hot enough to cause a fire.
Although it has been superseded by other products, many older barges are insulated with expanded polystyrene and it is important that PVC insulated wiring is not in direct contact with such polystyrene insulation.
Through some chemical exchange (I know not what), the PVC insulation becomes brittle and can flake off the wire, with obvious consequences.
Chris


you should also use bootlace ferruels, they are not expensive to purchase and come in doubles and extra long versions for those occasions where required. The good tool and kit is something like £12 or so like here

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1200Pcs-Crimp-Tool-W-Bootlace-Ferrule-Crimper-Plier-Wire-Terminal-Connector-Set/392532275886?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item5b64bf32ae:m:m4-Sf8en6XpnWcVF4Esd0jQ&enc=AQAEAAACQBPxNw%2BVj6nta7CKEs3N0qXGMKJYzciMkJmViMqi2AeHrvHMjA4bKVjQsUvCw179OtCHRkCgZVM%2FC%2FUYTiGgBf1QVA%2FyLEXviDCm1pPOXdcqpK9yA8TYtnHFqRdFleTZqNWWhwg5eFHvBeBmEXmOGYlZAt9UWMuoomR5pQK5lsCGuX30QeIoPfVXdw8U9XgnWtFoRyQ7meFWwnD%2Bn0AHhnC%2BYyLs%2FVjE3JPX3Kx1eKvsBFJk%2FLsvQVWEHgE%2BkgtB9y0YUweVBEuJNwfAH1%2Fw%2FbG9PIuYTJtVVOouDfNSs%2FkE5ZGrpuNeaaPpMOFmzAlKpz3t37ybTdU%2FlBMuChfmEQ6tgOT7k0gc85dWH%2BkZGRJC1kqWkRZ3QUJHbG74t7qqSFD%2BATq2dgWnUCIULRHJNa2uQkrsBaiscYI8oavn00mnRsNLBDPSsKDd2bnj5coyLL2gVvnQ2kXPUZggT8immuVkqn6whRt2llmI%2Fv%2FxWdu4GjjqeQN9C%2FGDHBn4jtKGGNcp0MaTMbJqxvwVZMCbiOA8YMVTzjlluKy9TRDvahoa2tt5lNO7Km1IPR58cSBPfX%2B%2FC5XpmERUXrbH4vJcT8rKbxeeWPQhwU%2FWTbcnUZUUaLACk8BjLXt5xJ6qv5oMVfMcTRUB4dPsuAzIFbqML0Yl2fSyZu8sQj1ZOOEDDcIk4UWQZD9cvEaqi6dZviY5AXVXarz2yCvVCxkK%2BOf6ni5Uy%2BnmnfgrTpmeZ6v%2FN448YL9R05qhEqGHkTwXISf3MQ%3D%3D&checksum=3925322758860c50647ae6f44bcc9e16b9dd5690cf58

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Testing of RCBOs/RCDs (not directives...) 24 Feb 2020 16:47 #113981

Further to previous replies may I add the following.
I would recommend using multi-strand flex for all boat/barge wiring. Solid core cable which is subject to vibration can work harden and become brittle. This can lead to a fracture in the copper that will still conduct electricity, but will create a point of electrical resistance. This can get hot enough to cause a fire.
Although it has been superseded by other products, many older barges are insulated with expanded polystyrene and it is important that PVC insulated wiring is not in direct contact with such polystyrene insulation.
Through some chemical exchange (I know not what), the PVC insulation becomes brittle and can flake off the wire, with obvious consequences.
Chris

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Testing of RCBOs/RCDs (not directives...) 23 Feb 2020 18:46 #113961

  • Andrew Harrison
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Collin
Thats a great idea if you know what your up to, but not something I would recommend just anyone tries. Some socket testers have it in built at the press of a button
Andy

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Testing of RCBOs/RCDs (not directives...) 23 Feb 2020 12:31 #113952

I made a RCD tester. Just wired a 7k ohm 10 watt resistor tween live and earth. Current through resistor is 30ma at 210v, which is a typical shore supply. 7.6k ohm resistor for 230v from Victron inverter.
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Colin Stone
Barge Register KEI
www.luxe-motor-kei.co.uk
DBA - The Barge Association
DBA - De Binnenvaartvereniging
DBA - L’Association des Péniches de Plaisance

Testing of RCBOs/RCDs (not directives...) 23 Feb 2020 09:17 #113947

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Hi
I periodically use a socket tester on board. This is similar to the ones used for rental property electrical safety checks and indicates various faults. It also has an RCD test function which simulates a fault down the cable to trip the RCD. The other handy feature is it can be used to test for reverse polarity of the shore supply.
Andy
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Testing of RCBOs/RCDs (not directives...) 22 Feb 2020 11:12 #113942

  • Balliol Fowden
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Modern pvc sheathed cabling does not tend to suffer the same age related deterioration as older rubber or otherwise insulated cables. So far as I am aware (as a non-certified electrician) there is no normal need for routine rewiring after a certain period. However, the external sheathing may suffer UV degradation if exposed, and on a boat vibration is also a risk so check carefully for cuts and chafes, the favourite areas being where cables pass through or over rough steel edges. Damp entering cable ends may also be an issue and it is not uncommon to need to cut back cables to fresh conductor if there is enough length left. A lot depends upon the location of the consumer unit: if there is damp damage then perhaps it is in the wrong place.

On a boat I would suggest that all mains circuits be wired through a suitable 30ma rated RCD/RCBO. These should trip if there is any minor current imbalance for almost any reason including cable degradation. Testing using the T button is normally suggested every quarter at least. That is not testing the wiring however, only the function of the RCD/RCBO unit.

Whilst I am sure that somewhere in all the voluminous standards we have to refer to there will be a need suggested for testing, test records etc. in practice there is nothing that I am aware of that is in practice applied to pleasure boats, and in all the inspections and surveys that we have had over the years there has never been any interest in the mains installations. AC mains installations on boats do not have a significant track record of incidents (in my experience, but I am sure somebody else will know different!) if reasonably well installed from the outset.

However, most of the RCD/RCBO/MCB kit you see is designed for domestic installation and will not be built to cope with the damp conditions on boats etc. MCB's in particular will deteriorate with age (arcing and corrosion) particularly if they have tripped often, so if your consumer board looks old it probably is and it would be prudent to replace all breakers etc. as a routine matter, taking the opportunity to check that all ratings remain appropriate. The same applies to socket outlets etc. If there are any signs of corrosion, or discolouring in the terminals or adjacent plastic, replace them. They are cheap!

There is a separate question of DC circuits and the common use of unsuitable breakers, but I would not want to be accused of deviating off topic.

If you are unsure, and the boat is >20 years old, then an inspection and testing by a suitably qualified marine electrician might be wise.

Balliol.
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Testing of RCBOs/RCDs (not directives...) 22 Feb 2020 09:46 #113941

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Hi all

I was checking longevity for AC wiring online/KB but it occurred to me the first sign of deteriorated AC wiring would likely be the RCD/RCBO tripping (I hope!).

Is there a testing frequency for the RCBO on our boat? It has a manual trip switch to confirm that the trip will work but do they need an electrical test at some regular point?
How often and who does it?
Do I need to record it?
Eu same as UK?

Cheers
Chris

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