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Navigating and living on the waterways of Great Britain & Ireland and news of canal developments.
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TOPIC: ES-TRIN and Boat safety Certificate

ES-TRIN and Boat safety Certificate 07 Feb 2020 19:05 #113663

Ok what hull survey and you intending to use as the Es-trim survey won’t accept just any old hull survey from any okd surveyor.

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ES-TRIN and Boat safety Certificate 07 Feb 2020 18:59 #113662

Hi many thanks for your comments, the boat builder has been in touch with a surveyor of their own that they have used in the past, and it is with his guidance that they are doing the necessary alterations.
We are expecting to have the boat back in UK next thursday ,and have arranged for a very good UK based surveyor, to give the Hull a inspection and also check everything else that in his option is required.
We will then arrange for a surveyor from Holland to do the rest at a convenient time when they are already in the UK and close to us.
That way on friday hopefully we will be in a better position to know if in fact the boat is ready which is what we have been told it will be to pass a Es-trin.
So fingers crossed :)

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ES-TRIN and Boat safety Certificate 07 Feb 2020 10:38 #113640

Danny, I recognise a lot has changed in the last eighteen months however this was our experience with a survey in the Netherlands.
We insured with EOC gaining a 10% discount by being a member of the LVBHB (cost about €40 per annum but saving €150 on the insurance).
We paid the slip fees, water blast and later the underwater hull painting. EOC paid the Register Holland fee to survey for ESTRIN compliance for 7 years. If that value was worth £2500 we are very happy.
I don't know if the EOC derivative ( for non Netherlanders) offers a discount for LVBHB membership or offers to pick up the Survey bill. However if you are lucky with a few emails you may get a discount ESTRIN covering you for the next 7 years.
Two years ago the surveyors and ship yards were run off their feet to complete surveys, now may be a good time to get yours out of step with the high demand years.
The survey can be quite quick ( I guess 3 or 4 hours). If you are roading the vessel from Poland to UK can you have the load stop for half a day in Holland to complete the survey then continue on. The truck delay cost may be less than surveyors travel costs.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Danny Brooks

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ES-TRIN and Boat safety Certificate 06 Feb 2020 20:32 #113631

The Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) have been busy and issued updated notices reflecting ES-TRIN 2019 and the UK's derogation of vessels operating only on UK waterways from the requirement to hold a European Certificate.

They are in the library under Regulations - barges.org/library-members/regulations . MSN 1879 covers the legal aspects and MSN 1880 is a repeat of the 2019 technical requirements. Recreational craft are mentioned with a requirement to gain a certificate to cruise abroad.

The text of MSN 1879 is convoluted but commercial craft (Class IX and X) with a European Certificate are free to use UK waterways without further certification. Recreational craft are not explicitly mentioned as Class XII craft but as there are no further UK requirements for recreational craft mentioned they should be free to use their European Certificate rather than having to gain a Boat Safety Certificate as well.

This marries well with Simon Sparrows experience on the Broads. EA Thames allowed me 4 years of ES-TRIN before having to gain a BSS – I will be pressing them for full recognition when my BSS expires!
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Best Wishes
Andy Soper
DBA Director Representation and Treasurer
mv Neeltje
Coookham
0044 (0) 303 666 0636

You don't need a barge to join - a dream of boating in Europe will do'. See www.barges.org

ES-TRIN and Boat safety Certificate 06 Feb 2020 16:55 #113616

Danny, I'm so very sorry to hear of your saga with your dream buid boat. A salutory tale for any other members considering a UK boat builders over 20m.

It concerns me that your buiders have at least agreed to bring it up to standard for ESTRIN but do they really know what is required and if so why didn't they do it in the first place. Can they guarantee that it will arrive in a few years in Belgium for a first inspection by a Dutch ESTRIN surveyor and not require any more work. This could be costly on the continent as they have no experience of wide beams. As others have suggested, I would get Reg Holland over now to do the pre inspection and then any failures can still be negotiated with your builder while they are hopefully still in business. The Dutch ESTRIN last for 7 years. Good luck and keep us all informed with progress.
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ES-TRIN and Boat safety Certificate 06 Feb 2020 13:39 #113610

Danny Brooks wrote: I hear what you are saying but thought the best way forward was to take it to Belguim and put it on the hard and have it s hull survey done then.
We can have e everything else surveyed before in UK by someone so it only needs the hull doing there.
As we will take it across on a lorry anyway .
We had had good advice from a UK surveyor on here and I trust him to check the boat over for us first.
Cheers for all input


yeh it doesn't quite work like that, the surveyor for the other stuff (excluding hull) will need to a suitable approved one of which i dont think there are any in the UK and I havent heard of them being flexible on the regular survey as they have been on the hull survey like they have done with Balliol performing them.

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ES-TRIN and Boat safety Certificate 06 Feb 2020 13:30 #113608

I hear what you are saying but thought the best way forward was to take it to Belguim and put it on the hard and have it s hull survey done then.
We can have e everything else surveyed before in UK by someone so it only needs the hull doing there.
As we will take it across on a lorry anyway .
We had had good advice from a UK surveyor on here and I trust him to check the boat over for us first.
Cheers for all input

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ES-TRIN and Boat safety Certificate 06 Feb 2020 13:19 #113607

ES-TRIN is 7 years in NL (or by a Dutch surveyor) but less in other countries, eg 5 in BE. I agree with do it now as the requirement could change when renewal will be easier than a first certificate.

Pete

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis , Gent.

ES-TRIN and Boat safety Certificate 06 Feb 2020 10:54 #113599

ES-Trin is 7 years and BSS is four.

Personally i would persist and get it done NOW. When you come to get it done youre going to need a lift out and a new hull survey as I doubt one that is four years old would be acceptable. You will have to do this in UK and that will incur costs of someone like Balliol and someone flying in from Holland. No idea of the disagreement between you and the builder, that comes down to contract and all that, however you have to weight up what they want extra from you now versus what you are going to pay extra when you do get your ES-TRIN.

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ES-TRIN and Boat safety Certificate 06 Feb 2020 10:11 #113597

Hi thanks for getting back to me.
The builder and I have come to a compromise of them getting everything needed for the Estrin but not to have it actually surveyed and completed.
The reason being we wont be going across for at least a coupke of years yet as want to do UK first and was told you have yo have it redone every 4 years?.
Also they have put A class AIS , VHF etc and blue board and had a lot of contact with a surveyor who has told them what was needed but we was not going to agree on the cost of the surveyor and thought as we have now been living in our caravan for over 6 months and didnt want to have the added problems of litigation it woul be best to compromise with them.
That way we get the boat back which is also our home and am assured all the necessary work has been done to pass the Estrin.
Hopefully we have made the right decision!

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ES-TRIN and Boat safety Certificate 06 Feb 2020 10:01 #113595

Actually thinking about it a new build turn key boat doesnt need a BSS for four years anyway so its a moot point.
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ES-TRIN and Boat safety Certificate 06 Feb 2020 09:52 #113594

Balliol Fowden wrote:

Danny Brooks wrote: Hi how much does he charge to come to UK please


Hi Danny,

My understanding from when we last spoke was that between you and your builder you were arranging for Register Holland to attend at the factory in CZ for the full ES-TRIN certification process. Once you have that ES-TRIN certificate that is what will suffice in lieu of a Boat Safety Scheme certificate, as stated by Simon, and I think that Andy Soper has also mentioned this useful BSS concession in the past. It should not be necessary for RH to attend again in the UK, unless of course your plans have changed.

Balliol.


IF you come across resistance when you have an ES-TRIN and insistence on a BSS particularly so on a new build then a BSS costs about £150. If it doesn't pass I would be having serious words with the boat builder in the first place.

I am sure I could have continued to convince my marina that ES-TRIN was superior to BSS, however I just organised a BSS with the marine gas safe man (who had removed all the old brazed/soldered joints when I got her to the UK when changing things) and it passed with no issues.

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ES-TRIN and Boat safety Certificate 05 Feb 2020 15:05 #113575

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Danny Brooks wrote: Hi how much does he charge to come to UK please


Hi Danny,

My understanding from when we last spoke was that between you and your builder you were arranging for Register Holland to attend at the factory in CZ for the full ES-TRIN certification process. Once you have that ES-TRIN certificate that is what will suffice in lieu of a Boat Safety Scheme certificate, as stated by Simon, and I think that Andy Soper has also mentioned this useful BSS concession in the past. It should not be necessary for RH to attend again in the UK, unless of course your plans have changed.

Balliol.

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ES-TRIN and Boat safety Certificate 05 Feb 2020 14:02 #113574

Thanks, if I wasn't selling Sirius this is for sure what I would be doing so am glad youve put the effort in.

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ES-TRIN and Boat safety Certificate 05 Feb 2020 09:47 #113565

  • Simon Sparrow
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Hi,

From memory it was about £2,500 for the Register Holland part including travelling. We had a hull survey done separately by Balliol Fowden, as Register Holland will accept his surveys.

Thanks,

Simon
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ES-TRIN and Boat safety Certificate 04 Feb 2020 23:15 #113553

Hi how much does he charge to come to UK please

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ES-TRIN and Boat safety Certificate 16 Dec 2019 18:28 #112173

That's an excellent precedent!

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis , Gent.

ES-TRIN and Boat safety Certificate 16 Dec 2019 18:03 #112170

  • Simon Sparrow
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Hi,

We are moored on the Broads and they (like a number of UK inland waterways) require a boat safety certificate. I was recently able to get the Broads Authority to accept our ES-TRIN certificate in lieu of the BSC as it was deemed equivalent or greater. Possibly not of use to too many people, but a small bonus after the expense of flying Register Holland over to get our ES-TRIN issued in the UK. :)

Simon

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