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TOPIC: ES-TRIN requirement for CO2 Fire Extinguisher in engine room

ES-TRIN requirement for CO2 Fire Extinguisher in engine room 04 Mar 2020 16:13 #114170

I've not looked at BSS requirements for ages and did not realise they stipulate a fire blanket, but when I think about it I know we had to have them on the passengerboats we operated in the 70s. I've always thought them a sensible precaution. I remember a surveyor saying we should fit a bilge alarm to warn of gas leakage, but I never checked to see if they were mandatory. With all the precautions required for gas storage and pipework I just assumed they were.

Tam

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ES-TRIN requirement for CO2 Fire Extinguisher in engine room 04 Mar 2020 15:10 #114164

Hello Tam,
BSS calls for a fire blanket.
Which regs require a gas alarm?

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Best Wishes
Andy Soper
DBA Director Representation and Treasurer
mv Neeltje
Coookham
0044 (0) 303 666 0636

You don't need a barge to join - a dream of boating in Europe will do'. See www.barges.org

ES-TRIN requirement for CO2 Fire Extinguisher in engine room 04 Mar 2020 12:56 #114156

  • Nicholas Longstaff
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Thanks Andy. I have a much better understanding of the system now, following the helpful comments posted by yourself and other DBA members. A great organisation!

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ES-TRIN requirement for CO2 Fire Extinguisher in engine room 04 Mar 2020 12:51 #114155

Hello Nick
Yes - it is intended to be a common standard - and at least ES-TRIN is accepted in all EU countries even if there is variation in duration (max 10 years) and some attempts at revenue protection in some countries.
In UK you do not need ESTRIN but do need BSS on many waterways. ESTRIN can be accepted - but there may be changes soon!

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Best Wishes
Andy Soper
DBA Director Representation and Treasurer
mv Neeltje
Coookham
0044 (0) 303 666 0636

You don't need a barge to join - a dream of boating in Europe will do'. See www.barges.org

ES-TRIN requirement for CO2 Fire Extinguisher in engine room 04 Mar 2020 12:47 #114154

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Thanks Tam. I do have a fire blanket in the galley.

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ES-TRIN requirement for CO2 Fire Extinguisher in engine room 04 Mar 2020 12:44 #114152

  • Nicholas Longstaff
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Thanks Balliol,

That all makes sense. I am aware of the necessity of not allowing the ES-TRIN to expire - there is no way that my boat (built in 1897) would meet "new vessel" standards and it does seem that I have quite a number of existing "exemptions" which, it seems, will be upheld (thankfully) .

Your correspondence and obvious knowledge in responding to my posts is much appreciated. This is the first time I have used a "forum" of any kind and it is very comforting to know that helpful, friendly assistance is just a click away.

Kind regards,

Nick Longstaff

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ES-TRIN requirement for CO2 Fire Extinguisher in engine room 04 Mar 2020 12:32 #114148

I would echo Pete's suggestion of a fire blanket for use in the galley (positioned sufficiently away from the stove that it can be reached in the event of a 'cooking' fire). I've always found it slightly odd that blankets don't get mention in any requirements I know of, though gas alarms in bilges do, of course.

Tam
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ES-TRIN requirement for CO2 Fire Extinguisher in engine room 04 Mar 2020 12:26 #114146

I would definitely add, as in a house, a small water-mist extinguisher (and fire-blamket) by the galley. I also have a small water-mist extinguisher in the enginerioom. Some advocate an extinguisher by the sleeping quarters for an overnight fire.

Dutch Surveyors can and do survey barges of any registration. There are occasional national requirements in addition to ES-TRIN which surveyors may quote, confusing them with ES-TRIN.

Pete
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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis , Gent.

ES-TRIN requirement for CO2 Fire Extinguisher in engine room 04 Mar 2020 12:23 #114145

  • Balliol Fowden
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Our ship is UK registered and has been ES-TRIN certified by both the Belgians and the Dutch. The Dutch seem happy to do anything. The Belgians wanted their own form of Tonnage Measurement (at negligible cost) and I have a sneaking suspicion that they may also have put my ship on the Belgian register but I have not delved into that possible can of worms as yet.

If you are in the EU then you need ES-TRIN if >20 metres.

If not in the UK you do not need BSS.

If you take the boat to the UK (on EA or C&RT waters) then it would seem that BSS will accept a valid ES-TRIN, at least for the first four years or for the validity of the ES-TRIN, whichever is the lesser. Andy will know more about this.

If you do not have ES-TRIN then a BSS is necessary in the UK irrespective of country of registration unless just a short term visitor (28 days I believe).

It does however seem very important that the ES-TRIN is maintained in validity even if the boat remains in the UK since once the ES-TRIN has expired the consequences for subsequent renewal may be very difficult since the ship will have to have a new inspection to the latest standards, whatever they may be in the future.

Balliol.
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ES-TRIN requirement for CO2 Fire Extinguisher in engine room 04 Mar 2020 11:46 #114142

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Many thanks to Pete, Balliol and Andy for your helpful replies.

Based on the information provided, I shall install 3 x 6kg Dry Powder, at the required locations (as stipulated in the ES-TRIN reg's), as well as 1 x Water Mist in the wheelhouse (for use in case of a real fire!). I will question the Dutch surveyor about the requirement for a CO2 extinguisher on his check-list and refer him to the ES-TRIN reg;s if necessary.

As an aside: I thought that the ES-TRIN regulations were supposed to standardise requirements across Europe but it seems that each country has it's own requirements. For example: My boat is Dutch registered and can only be tested and certified by a Dutch surveyor (every seven years). My neighbour's boat is French registered and can only be tested and certified by a French surveyor (every ten years!) and of course; the BSS in the UK is every 4 years with a completely different set of criteria. If my barge was UK registered, would it need to comply with the BSS or ES-TRIN regulations (or both!)?

Kind regards,
Nick Longstaff

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ES-TRIN requirement for CO2 Fire Extinguisher in engine room 03 Mar 2020 19:32 #114105

Many of us have the required two or three Powder extinguishers to satisfy ES-TRIN but Water-Mist (and/or CO2) for use in the event of a fire. Powder in a boat will go everywhere and take weeks to clean out. If the fire is bad enough to need powder, it may be better to get out to safety. ( See here )

Pete

PS Safelincs in the UK will supply all types of extinguisher with 15% DBA discount and at zero-rate VAT if the ship qualifies ( See here )
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Feedback is always welcome here - or by PM (click on the speech-bubble at the left)

ES-TRIN requirement for CO2 Fire Extinguisher in engine room 03 Mar 2020 18:52 #114104

  • Balliol Fowden
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Andy is correct, but to put it more succinctly, pleasure craft are not required to have CO2 or any other type of fire extinguisher specifically for the engine room. The only requirement is for one x 6kg. compliant ABC dry powder extinguisher at each access. Most ES-TRIN surveyors will accept two units, one for example by the forward doors and one for example in the wheelhouse, adjacent to the engine room, or similar subject to the design of the boat.

The use of automatic engine room units is too difficult under the regulations for most small barges.

Don't copy me but I carry a 5kg CO2 unit close to the engine room, which can be deployed from outside the engine room through a break-glass fire port . No surveyor has ever as yet questioned its presence or size, and you can rest assured that once deployed I would not be there. We also carry water mist, which is much cleaner than dry powder and almost as effective.

Balliol.
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ES-TRIN requirement for CO2 Fire Extinguisher in engine room 03 Mar 2020 18:15 #114103

Hello Nicholas,

Doesn't seem to be in the regulations (although I do have an EXTRA CO2 extinguisher at the engine room entrance as good practice)

The relevant ES-TRIN paragraph for recreational vessels reads:
Article 13.03, (2) to (6),
2. For the portable fire extinguishers required by (1), only powder type extinguishers with a content
of at least 6 kg or other portable extinguishers with the same extinguishing capacity may be
used. They shall be suitable for Class A, B and C fires.
By way of derogation on vessels with no liquefied gas installations, spray foam fire
extinguishers using aqueous film-forming foam (AFFF-AR) frost proof to -20 °C are permissible
even if they are unsuitable for Class C fires. These fire extinguishers shall have a minimum
capacity of 9 litres.
All extinguishers shall be suitable to extinguish fires in electrical systems of up to 1000 V.
3. In addition powder, water or foam fire extinguishers may be used which are suitable at least for
the class of fire most likely to occur in the room for which they are intended.
4. Portable fire extinguishers with CO2 as the extinguishing agent may be used only for
extinguishing fires in galleys and electrical installations. The content of these fire extinguishers
shall be no more than 1 kg per 15 m3 of the room in which they are made available for use.
5. Portable fire extinguishers shall be checked at least every two years by a competent person. An
inspection label shall be affixed to the fire extinguisher, signed by the competent person and
showing the date of the inspection.
6. If portable fire extinguishers are installed in such a way that they are out of sight, the panel
covering them shall be identified by a symbol for fire extinguishers as shown in Figure 3 of
Annex 4, and having a side length of at least 10 cm.

And you can find the rest of ES_trin for recreational vessels here:
barges.org/knowledgebase/regulations/regulations-boats/triwv/more-about-triwv/348-es-trin-for-pleasurecraft

There may be confusion with design of fixed fire-fighting installations - which are not required on recreational craft but there are specifications if fitted.
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Best Wishes
Andy Soper
DBA Director Representation and Treasurer
mv Neeltje
Coookham
0044 (0) 303 666 0636

You don't need a barge to join - a dream of boating in Europe will do'. See www.barges.org

ES-TRIN requirement for CO2 Fire Extinguisher in engine room 03 Mar 2020 17:44 #114101

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I have only had my 20.6m barge Hendrika for two and a half years and the ES-TRIN is due this year. I have sourced a local engineer to do the survey and he has kindly given me a "check list" which states that I require a CO2 fire extinguisher in the engine room (makes sense) but that it must not have a greater capacity than 1kg per 15m3 space. I have roughly measured the engine room and it is approximately 15.3m3 (3.0 x 3.0 x 1.7). Great, I thought, I need a 1kg CO2 fire extinguisher. The problem seems to be that all I can find are 2kg and 5kg CO2 extinguishers, which are obviously too large. I understand that a CO2 extinguisher works by removing oxygen from the atmosphere, thus not allowing the fire to burn but that it also, in doing so, removes oxygen that you are trying to breathe and I can therefore comprehend the reasoning for the size limitation. Can anybody help me and advise where I can purchase a 1kg CO2 extinguisher?
Many thanks in advance.
Nick Longstaff

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