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BARGES: All about barges and barging - building, buying, maintaining, equipment, handling on the water, etc.
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TOPIC: Yards in Amsterdam for shortening

Yards in Amsterdam for shortening 27 Jan 2020 19:41 #113233

Hello Alfred,

A few thoughts

The length of your UK mooring must be the over-riding limiting factor - unless you have other options

Dutch shipyards are the best place in the world to get quality barge steelwork done and usually at a lower price even with TVA paid and with no benefit from the UK zero-rating opportunity.

You don't seem to have the ideal barge for you in your sights - the low price is possibly skewing your decision? If it is THE barge you will know that already (just like house-buying)!

Similar to Pete's experience we had our narrowboat successfully lenghtened by 12ft - by the original boat-builder to ensure a quality but expensive result. We bought our barge based on the quality of the steel conversion - nearly everything inside has been changed!

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Best Wishes
Andy Soper
DBA Director Representation and Treasurer
mv Neeltje
Coookham
0044 (0) 303 666 0636

You don't need a barge to join - a dream of boating in Europe will do'. See www.barges.org

Yards in Amsterdam for shortening 27 Jan 2020 11:17 #113214

  • Alfred Munden
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Thanks for all the advice. Much appreciated. We'll be in the Netherlands that week, and that's a good shortlist of places to visit for an initial conversation.

It's good to know that a temporary certificate can be issued, or the boat towed. Doesn't sound simple though! I do actually have a petrol pump, although I'm sure that's the least of it... It may be more straightforward to have the work done in the UK in light of this? Does anyone have any strong opinions about the quality and price of english/dutch shipyards for this sort of work?

We're not settled on shortening the barge we're going to see, if it does turn out to be the one for us. Any opinions on whether it would be worthwhile, the approximate cost for the steelwork and what length might be sensible to shoot for would be welcome. I've tried to outline my thoughts on it so far below:

- The boat is going for what seems to be a great price as it's not certified to ESTRIN, and I suppose the owner has left it too late and is now in a pickle looking at new engines and such.

- According to the most recent (2014) insurance survey the hull is in reasonably good shape but would need a fair bit of work to get it up to insurance standards in the UK. The report shows most areas comfortably above 5mm with a few isolated spots just below 4 - not too scary? So far she seems to have had one very large doubling on the flat bottom, and 4 smaller plates here and there.

- Based on very little (low res pictures and an old insurance survey done in pencil on photocopied template!) it looks like a shortening might kill two birds with one stone and remove the section of the hull in the worst condition.

- We would be stripping her out and refitting her either way, so the cost of rejigging the interior isn't an issue.

- We have a really nice mooring alongside a workshop barge to fit her out on lined up. It's comfortably 16-17m, and could be squeezed to perhaps 18 metres with some creative mooring. Up to 22 metres or so would be possible, but it would involve finding a new mooring for another boat and other inconveniences that I'd rather avoid if possible.

- I have a feeling that a barge of ~18m is a more appealing and saleable prospect all round, in terms of marina berths, potential for cruising in Europe and ease of cruising the UK network. Is this unfounded? We're fitting it out for ourselves in the short - medium term, but definitely with a view to being able to sell easily. It still seems like plenty of boat at 18m.

Ta!

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Yards in Amsterdam for shortening 27 Jan 2020 10:48 #113213

Hi Alfred

Not wishing either to pour cold water or to teach my grandmother how to suck eggs, but presumably you've thought long and hard about just why you want to shorten the boat?

As you're intending to take the boat back to the UK then (I think I'm right in saying) neither CEVNI nor ES-TRIN applies, so it's presumably not the Regs., and most locks on the system will take up to 21.5m at a squeeze (as in the 'good old days' where 70' was the standard).

Up to you, obviously, I was just thinking of the very considerable cost of shortening, quite apart from the aesthetics, not to mention the greater flexibility of deck and interior layout with a longer vessel.

That all being said, I once had a narrowboat lengthened by 6' - worked a treat!

Pete Clark

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Pete Clark
Nooit Gedacht

Yards in Amsterdam for shortening 27 Jan 2020 10:45 #113212

Hello Alfred,

The ES-TRIN rules are the same across Europe and your choices are tug and tow or the special voyage certified by an ES-TRIN surveyor. As you are asking about Amsterdam I presume your barge is nearby? If so - once you have chosen your yard ask them to make the arrangements for the tow - then any date changes can be managed by them as well - one less thing for you to manage.

As you are having her shortened to avoid ES-TRIN then employing an ES-TRIN certified surveyor to issue the permission would be an additional expense - unless you are moving her a long way.

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Best Wishes
Andy Soper
DBA Director Representation and Treasurer
mv Neeltje
Coookham
0044 (0) 303 666 0636

You don't need a barge to join - a dream of boating in Europe will do'. See www.barges.org

Yards in Amsterdam for shortening 27 Jan 2020 08:50 #113210

Hello Alfred
Welcome to the forum and the world of barges.

I can't help with yards, but my understanding of the rules is (in France) the only way to move a barge without a CvO (ESTRIN - Certificate European) under its own power is with a temporary certificate issued for one trip by an expert. I know in one instance where the delivery crew had to provide petrol driven salvage pumps and battery navigation lights amongst other things.
I've heard of it, but have no personal experience. Insurance may be a problem.

The best way in my humble opinion would be to arrange a tow from a specialist company, making sure that they have the insurance covered.

Paul Hayes

PS I've seen quite a few shortened barges, it all depends on the sweep of the hull as to how noticeable the finished item is. Far less when it's a "flat" profile, much more so if a "banana" sweep, where it sticks out like a sore thumb.

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Yards in Amsterdam for shortening 27 Jan 2020 00:47 #113209

Het Anchor at Hendric Ido Ambach did ours. It's perfect as they took the length out of the middle of the hull and adjusted the length to the final millimetre to ensure the checker plate pattern on the deck matched.

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Yards in Amsterdam for shortening 26 Jan 2020 22:01 #113207

+1 for Brouwer - carried out very efficient and professional slipping for us - have floating docks as well - better for cut and shut. Work completed to time and estimate.

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Best Wishes
Andy Soper
DBA Director Representation and Treasurer
mv Neeltje
Coookham
0044 (0) 303 666 0636

You don't need a barge to join - a dream of boating in Europe will do'. See www.barges.org

Yards in Amsterdam for shortening 26 Jan 2020 21:41 #113206

Brouwer. in Zaandam is a good one www.scheepswerfbrouwer.nl
Kramer a little bit more north. www.kramervof.nl

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Yards in Amsterdam for shortening 26 Jan 2020 17:41 #113201

  • Alfred Munden
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Hello all,

Wondering if anyone has experience of shortening a barge in the Amsterdam area.

We're looking at purchasing a barge there which is over 20 metres; we want to shorten the boat in the Netherlands before bringing her back to the UK, and we'd be interested to hear anyone's advice about specific yards. We're only taking 6' or so off the length, so we hope that it would be possible to do this without making an ugly duckling, or introducing an awkward step in the hull - it would be great to find a yard that would be really careful with the boat.

She doesn't have a CvO at the moment or the required modifications for a boat of her size; does anyone know if we could still move her to a yard to have those modifications made, rather like driving a car with no MOT to the garage?

Many thanks.

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