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BARGES: All about barges and barging - building, buying, maintaining, equipment, handling on the water, etc.
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TOPIC: Bringing barge from Aalsmeer to Falmouth. Reduced rig?

Bringing barge from Aalsmeer to Falmouth. Reduced rig? 19 Feb 2020 09:46 #113875

If you absolutely decided you wanted to motor her across then I would also recommend Stefan Fritz.

We brought our barge from Dunkirk to Limehouse in I think 18hours in October 2017. Had to wait a week for a weather window, strapped three 205l litre barrels in front of the wheelhouse and bypassed the tanks in the engine so we had a confirmed clean supply to overcome the sludge at bottom of tank if it became messy. Crossing was very uneventful.

IF it is the RIGHT boat for you, you'll find a way to make the finances work - whilst a channel trip is quite some experience and a great story to talk about and the port hopping side would be epic to hear, I suspect the experienced people on here have already nailed it down.

Get her into Medway/London and lifted and trailered as an alternative.

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Bringing barge from Aalsmeer to Falmouth. Reduced rig? 19 Feb 2020 03:41 #113872

What a bunch of old fuddy-duddies. There is nothing like the fun of taking a flat-bottomed boat out to sea in a stiff breeze, as you can see in the linked video. Don't let these old codgers put you off what could be the trip of a life-time.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kg_QweiLy0
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Bringing barge from Aalsmeer to Falmouth. Reduced rig? 17 Dec 2019 14:40 #112205

Alfred,
You might like to consider a compromise. A passage to Calais via the inland waterways and then a relatively short passage up the Thames to a yard where you can be lifted out and transported to Falmouth at hopefully a cheaper cost.
To make the passage all the way under it's own keel, even from Calais you will require a four or five day period of settled weather. Although not impossible, it is unlikely at the time of the year you propose. In contrast a crossing to the Thames only needs 24 hours of good weather. This is much more viable, as evidence I brought my own barge across earlier this month.
The voyage along the South coast is a delightful prospect in the summer, but be aware. If the weather turns and you find yourself seeking shelter in any of the harbours along the way you will be charged "yachty" rates for the privilege. This could prove to be expensive as you wait for the next window of opportunity.
Chris Hanley

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Bringing barge from Aalsmeer to Falmouth. Reduced rig? 17 Dec 2019 09:25 #112193

  • Alfred Munden
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Thanks for all the responses! Loads to think about for sure. Bowen Marine sound great, I'll in touch with them today and see what they have to say,

A few points to clarify and some more details:

- 8.5k is outside of our budget. We had planned, based on a few conversations, to spend more like 4-5k on the delivery. If it can be done sensibly, we would rather put this into the boat in the form of an engine overhaul, and sorting the rigging and such than spend it on a single trip.

- We aren't planning on keeping her as a cruising boat in Falmouth, but as a houseboat. Of course, if we can waft up the Helford on a good day in summer that would be a definite bonus!

- With regards to the idea of having an auxiliary outboard, I had imagined using the longest shaft outboard we could find mounted on a substantial kicker plate. Does that sound plausible? I can see that a big outboard might do us more good stuck to a dinghy on the foredeck...

- The mast swings to the keel on a deck mounted tabernacle, with big counterweights that are present, so I suppose the only standing rigging that was required to raise it was a couple of shrouds. As I understand she wasn't in full sailing trim, they just popped the mast up to see if everything worked. That was a few years ago, and since then the mast has deteriorated a fair bit - it's rotten from the tabernacle down, it looks like it set in around the hole for the pin. From there up, it's in very good shape considering it's apparently 70+ years old. The other spars all look good, and there is a good winch on the foredeck.

I'm well aware they can fall over with big rigs, we're definitely not planning on over-canvassing it! I was wondering if a reduced auxiliary rig, motor-sailer style, would be worthwhile. As much to have something to use as a derrick to get a dinghy on the foredeck, and run a flag up, as to use for propulsion. I was also hoping that being able to set some sails when motoring would help keep from slopping around too much in a short sea, and save some diesel if the wind is in our favour. Perhaps we could incorporate the original tabernacle arrangement, which has very a very substantial (maybe 250mm x 200mm with 7-8mm wall thickness) U-section beam down to a pad on the keel. Is there any precedent for this?

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Bringing barge from Aalsmeer to Falmouth. Reduced rig? 16 Dec 2019 08:39 #112129

Hi Alfred, you mention the mast base is rotten has no standing rigging and has been raised, how did the raising occur? With a jury rig?
To mount the mast on a tabanacle means the roof underneath requires significant reinforcement of the roof.
If the plan is to reduce the sail area then in light breezes you will have a slow wallowing vessel. Nor withstanding in strong winds the boat being a Tjalk ( with no ballast) can fall over if over canvassed! If you search the net for racing Tjalk there are 'exciting' images of them falling over.

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Bringing barge from Aalsmeer to Falmouth. Reduced rig? 15 Dec 2019 21:50 #112115

Another way of looking at this is to have a guess at the cost of actually motoring the boat from Calais, by the time you buy a whole lot of diesel, really, really clean the fuel tank, pay a lot of steep harbour dues, pay a skipper for whichever legs you might need and lots of things I have not thought of you will be spending quite a lot of money, £2 K+? that brings the quote from Ray Bowern down to £6.K more than motoring it down the channel. Personally I would get a couple more quotes, that might close the gap even more. CPL is one that I can think of.

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Bringing barge from Aalsmeer to Falmouth. Reduced rig? 15 Dec 2019 13:56 #112095

  • Balliol Fowden
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I suspect you are starting some way from the coastal ports. That would fit with Ray's quote, which is competitive. You might be able to prune perhaps 1K off the transport price if starting from somewhere a bit nearer such as Nieuwpoort in Belgium, but the cost is largely in the necessary permits and the convoy vehicle for a wide load, both UK and EU, presuming you are over 3.5 metres beam (or just over 3 in BE).

HOWEVER: I am with Paul on this. You are buying an old unproven boat and seem to be planning a long trip through some busy shipping lanes and along what is a wild coast in parts. As I write I am looking at the big ships sheltering in Falmouth bay and I am glad I am not at sea today.

Coast hopping often doesn't work since so many ports are tide dependent, and it can be surprisingly expensive. You might be lucky and get a clear run down the coast, but more likely you will be unlucky, particularly in the months you mention.

You need to consider all the figures very carefully, including all the costs of a thorough engine overhaul, tank cleaning etc., all your skipper's costs, LSA hire, potential enforced weather stopovers of possibly weeks in expensive marinas, the costs of transporting the skipper (possibly on several occasions). You mention a "big outboard." How are you going to mount that? Do you think the prop will stay in the water?

Then you need to add a sum for your own personal safety, that of the skipper and the safety of the lifeboat crew (plus a big donation!)

Speaking as somebody who has completed numerous channel crossings with barges, including 6 with my own ship and including some long coastal trips, I can say very clearly that I would not wish to do it again. Put it on a truck!

Balliol.
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Bringing barge from Aalsmeer to Falmouth. Reduced rig? 15 Dec 2019 12:46 #112090

Hello Alfred. Sounds like a lovely ship with plenty to do and enjoy. I would try Stefan Fritz who is a pro delivery skipper, surveyor and sailing barge rig expert. See Suppliers Directory
barges.org/knowledgebase/suppliers-guide/121-bowen-marine-associates

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Bringing barge from Aalsmeer to Falmouth. Reduced rig? 15 Dec 2019 10:40 #112079

Hi Alfred, welcome to the DBA. I wonder where you intend to sail in the Falmouth region?
I recommend you look at the 'Recent Topicc- Finding what rivers and canals I can sail on a Cat D wide beam. I think ( my opinion) it would be fair to consider your craft as a sailing vessel for EU Cat 2 or 3 conditions. Sailing out of Falmouth may be more exposed than Cat 2/3. Others may wish to comment.

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Bringing barge from Aalsmeer to Falmouth. Reduced rig? 14 Dec 2019 22:27 #112067

In my humble opinion, bite the bullet and find 8.5k.
What you propose in February/ March, would require a great deal of luck, which is not in plentiful supply.
I could list reasons for my advice, but frankly I don't have the time.
By the way I have quite a bit of sea experience, mainly in and around the Bristol Channel and the Menai Straits, with quite a few English Channel crossings thrown in.
Paul Hayes
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Bringing barge from Aalsmeer to Falmouth. Reduced rig? 14 Dec 2019 21:11 #112063

  • Alfred Munden
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Hi all,

We are about to complete the purchase on a 16.5m Tjalk. We're planning on having some work done on her in the yard she's at, before doing one of a few options.... we'd really appreciate any thoughts, perspective or ideas from those who've done it before!

We've had a quote from Ray Bowens transport for about 8.5k excluding cranage, door to door. This is outside our budget, but could be cheaper? We're fairly up for a sea crossing, and would pay a dutch barge experienced skipper to come with us. We're both competent sailors without much solo experience.

So, we're thinking about making our way through the inland waterways to Calais and doing a channel crossing, before hopping our way down the coast to Falmouth. The engine is a marinised Ford 6 cylinder, old but apparently well maintained and reliable. We'd probably buy or borrow a big outboard or maybe a rib in case of engine failure. Can anyone recommend a professional skipper who might come with the kit required for the crossing, and give us an idea of what they cost?

The timescale for this is around February/March, so we're prepared to wait for a weather window and potentially give it another month as needed.

There's also a whole other question about sailing rigs. She comes with a keel stepped mast, which is rotten around the step, a good boom and gaff, and no sails or standing rigging. The mast has been up and the winch looks in good condition, but we want to increase the headroom in the forward cabin which would mean blocking the keel step off. This would be a painful thing to do as we're keen to retain the history/be able to sail her, so are considering making a reduced rig which could be stepped on the top of the cabin. Has anyone done that before? Presumably it'd make the sea sailing a lot more comfortable and enjoyable?

Cheers,

Amy and Alf.

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